Alchemy - What holds you back?

[Ashin Varanin]

I've been making alchemical goodies for a long ol' time now, and I've had so, so many people give me variations of this:

"I'd love to play with alchemy, I just don't know how to go about doing it. Canon's so vague on so many points, and I don't know anything about metallurgy or genetic engineering or how to make them mix with what canon does say. It's just intimidating. And everyone's got a different spin on alchemy, and I don't want to do it wrong."

Which is totally fair. Now, I don't have the time to write a guide to alchemy right now, and it wouldn't be comprehensive anyway. Within the dozen or so board alchemists I can think of, there's at LEAST half a dozen different interpretations of how alchemy works, what its products can do, and what canon sources to prioritize. If you sort out the best fifty alchemy tech subs, you'll find that many of them rely on widely varying fundamental assumptions about how even the basic things work. (And that's OK.)

Writers who do a lot with alchemy ask themselves a lot of questions, consciously or subconsciously? How much can any given precedents be stretched or combined? How much do I want to reinvent the wheel? Should I stick to the same qualitative effects as canon items, or does anything go qualitatively as long as the order of magnitude is around the same? How closely should I stick to the spirit and aesthetic of the Star Wars films, considering how heavily the EU and Clone Wars dip into the spirit of true science fantasy? At what point is 'ambitious' just a synonym for 'overpowered and under-earned'?

A lot of people have a lot of strongly held opinions about those questions and others, and I doubt there are any correct answers. This thread isn't about debating those questions. It's about two things:

• Telling aspiring alchemy writers that even the experts are largely making it up as they go; and,
• Asking aspiring alchemy writers what holds them back, now that they know the first bit.

So what help can we as a community give to people who want to dabble in alchemy? I'd love to hear from those people. What barriers of uncertainty or perception or knowledge or process get in your way, and how can we help you get past them?

 

[Writer]

I just find it can get very convoluted when it comes to making items. Not that i dont understand how to make them just I've seen some submissions, discussion and what not - kinda turned me away cause they tend to get more complex than it needs to be?

I'm a tech person anyways but still...

Just my thought.

 

[Darth Carnifex]

To be fair, I've always drawn on my experience roleplaying in a fantasy setting like Warcraft when I think of Sith Alchemy or Magic.

Lots of complex incantations, rituals, hand gestures, powerful phrases, and all sorts of stuff like that.

[member="Ember Rekali"]

 

[Sage Bane]

For me, I try to approach Alchemy the way that I approach the writing Force powers. It works in mysterious ways and no one can really explain exactly how it works in minute detail. If you can write the Force, you can similarly write Alchemy. Like Kaine said, the descriptions of practicing it harken to any fantasy setting we play in. Think about how you might describe crafting in a fantasy MMO with forges, cauldrons, looms, and focusing chambers.

Also, along with canon resources, Wikipedia can give even more ideas on how the process might work.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alchemy
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metallurgy
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metalsmith
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talisman
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosopher%27s_stone
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occult#Science_and_the_occult

 

[Coren Starchaser]

...spaceship?

 

[Ashin Varanin]

[member="Sage Bane"] - Very nice.


I'm also fond of these as resources:

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Artifacts
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Jedi_artifacts
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Force-sensitive_objects
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Nightsister_talismans
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Categoryark_side_artifacts
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Sith_amulets
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Sith_artifacts
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Sith_crystals

 

[Jsc]

*dropped because downer*

 

[Ashin Varanin]

[member="Jay Scott Clark"]

Interesting perspective, Jay. Gives me some ideas. You're right on the money: when alchemy is just 'make the trinket that does whateverthefeth I want', it's really, really boring.

Most of the fun of alchemy, for me, is in setting, finding, and working within limitations. Sanderson's Second Law is the thing: limitations are more interesting than powers. My most ambitious and off-the-wall creations aren't fun to make because they do crazy thing X, they're fun to make because I figured out how to do something close to crazy thing X, based on obscure canon precedents, research, interpolation, etc. That's not how all alchemy writers approach it -- some just prefer to go 'I want a sword that's on fire. It's a sword that's on fire because I want it to be on fire.' I made one of those ages ago because people wanted it, and it was just bleh. But taking weird random precedents and seeing what you can use them for -- that's where the creativity comes into it. Because when I can only make things with some combination or extrapolation of a finite set of discontinuous, weird precedents, that often carry weird limitations along with them...that, for me, is a ton of fun. And a partial antidote to the boredom that sets in when you can just wave your hand and make whatever.

 

[Delila Castillon]

What holds me back? Lack of the Force.

 

[Jsc]

[member="Ember Rekali"]

It is this attitude of self restraint that makes you such a great writer and a joy to be around.

However. That said. My faith that all our fellow comrades in this community will embrace your awesome level of self restraint is... Um. Smaller. Lol.

Anyway. I answered your question. Cheers and happy posting!

 

[Darth Carnifex]

I also tend to just fleshcraft monsters nowadays.

Usually canon shizzle.

[member="Ember Rekali"]

 

[Julius Sedaire]

[member="Ember Rekali"] - Honestly? What is holding me back is almost entirely OOC... ICly I did some research prepping to make this guy, and have my own ideas how alchemy will work, etc.. And I was excited to implement them... OOC? OOC I would like a set of like minded (or even in the same 'book' to be honest) writers. Everyone wants a special sword on fire, like you mentioned. And honestly? That is boring as all hell. It's been done to death and back... I'd much rather make the random trinkets I do for AEI, or make absolutely off the wall weird things like your Lonesom Gun. I like digging into canon and the real world science behind creations and finding out not only what is possible, but making the improbable happen. I just can't seem to find anybody interested in anything other than that flaming sword, so I come back to Ostanes quite often, very excited, hit the same brick wall, and then just get bored and shelve him.

The other part is, when you ask for help with the dev, suddenly everyone balks and vanishes. There just doesn't seem to be anyone doing such things around that don't flake out. That is something I discovered making Tech on Ijaat, and it seems to follow Alchemy. People just want their +5 Flaming Sword of Evil Evilness. There is often little story to the attaining or making of it, no real meat other than they want a cool toy. Again, that gets boring, so I wander away.

It also doesn't help most of the Alchemists are with the OS, and I just don't fit in there ICly with Ostanes.

 

[Six-O]

You all shall teach me your secrets, so that I may usurp your pitiful positions of organic power with greater ease.

 

[Ashin Varanin]

[member="Jay Scott Clark"] - D'aww, you say the nicest things.

It's also worth noting, since you mention it, that most of the people who approach alchemy as just 'I can make anything I want and it works that way because I say so' geeeenerally make two or three things and then get bored. It's like a shortcut to level 50 syndrome; there's no challenge in it, because they often don't clue in that restrictions are what drive creativity. So in that sense, I think that kind of approach to alchemy is self-regulating.

The downside, so far as this thread's purpose is concerned, is that a whole host of weird expectations get created, which can get in the way of people tackling alchemy. Things like...feeling like you have to either make something transcendently vanilla-y uber, or make something minimal as you work your way up. In the false dichotomy between punching your apprenticeship time card with dull subs (and this applies to tech and company tier growth too) and overreaching to feel competitive, nobody wins. Creativity gets shuffled aside in favor of by-the-numbers approaches and reinventing the wheel and keeping up with the Joneses. And I think that's another barrier for new folks: it can make alchemical invention look really boring, so the whole opportunity gets missed.

Which is a dang shame, because I've tried every kind of RP and RP-related invention, and alchemy's probably where I've had the most consistent fun.

 

[Jsc]

[member="Ember Rekali"]

I'm going to drop this post now. In retrospect, it never needed to be said anyways.

 

[Julius Sedaire]

Copied from Skype, but I felt it was relevant:

I don't want to make that +5 Flaming Sword of Evil Evilness.... I want to make Callandor and read the story where 'Rand' finally realizes his destiny and grasps it by the hilt, terrified by what it means that he can wield it... I want to make Drynwyn, and watch or write with Taran when he finds his own worth, and in doing so realizes the sword is more allegory and tool than power itself...I want to make the Seige Perilous, and see who is worthy to sit it....

I want to make things that inspire stories on their own, and spawn quests and crusades to take them for a writers own, or destroy them for the good of all.. Or the detriment, I'm not picky... But damnt, I can't do it as a lone Acolyte, because certain people have road flares in place of tampons and think 'You are an acolyte, you can only make trinkets' and that is just so boring to do.

 

[Matreya]

[member="Ostanes"]
That was deep man...lol

 

[Julius Sedaire]

[member="Darth Pikiran"] - Welcome to my world when I get more than 2-4 hours of sleep...

 

[Darth Ferus]

[member="Ostanes"]

I'm always looking to flesh out what I write with Alchemy, so if you want help I'm down. I may be One Sith, but Ferus isn't one to turn down a chance to better his own alchemy, no matter who its with (unless you've been marked for death of course).

I got some things to say on alchemy, but alas, trapped on my phone. Expect another post at some point to express my view on it.

 

[Judah Lesan]

What holds me back? It wasn't in 4, 5, and 6.